(Dr. Darrel Ray)
From the podcast episode's page where you can find the episode itself and links mentioned in the show description:
Podcast Topic:
In this episode – largely a conversation between Dr. Ray and the podcast's host Justin Vacula -- Dr. Ray speaks about the secular therapist project and related topics such as the potential harm of inserting religion into a therapist/client relationship, the role of science-based/evidence-based information in therapy, problems secular persons face when seeking mental health professionals, and how religious therapists can strive to not include supernatural elements in therapy.
Cast:
Justin Vacula (Podcast Host, Co-Organizer, Spokesperson, and a Board Member)
Jason Gogola (Producer, Web Director, and a Board Member)
If you wish to ask a question or comment on this podcast please send your email to podcast@nepafreethought.org.
About Dr. Darrel Ray:
Dr. Darrel Ray is an organizational psychologist, writer, and speaker who is the founder of Recovering From Religion. His four books include two on organizational team issues (Teaming up: making the transition to a self-directed, team-based organization and The performance culture: maximizing the power of teams), The God Virus: How Religion Infects Our Lives and Culture, and Sex and God: How Religion Distorts Sexuality. Dr. Ray has been a student of religion most of his life and holds a MA degree in religion as well as a BA in Sociology/Anthropology and a doctorate in psychology
Mentioned in the Podcast:
Secular Therapist Project
Recovering from Religion
Sex & God: How Religion Distorts Sexuality
Music used in podcast:
Artist: of Montreal
Song: Gronlandic Edit
Lyrics highlighted:
I guess it would be nice to give my heart to a God
But which one, which one do I choose?
All the churches filled with losers, psycho or confused
I just want to hold the divine in mine.
Showing posts with label psychology. Show all posts
Showing posts with label psychology. Show all posts
Upcoming Podcast with Dr. Darrel Ray
From the news release on nepafreethought.org:
Upcoming Podcast with Dr. Darrel Ray
Psychologist Dr. Darrel Ray will be appearing on a special episode of the NEPA Freethought Society Podcast titled “Religion, Psychology, and the Secular Therapist Project with Dr. Darrel Ray” to be released this upcoming Wednesday evening, June 6.
In this episode – largely a conversation between Dr. Ray and the podcast's host Justin Vacula -- Dr. Ray spoke mainly about the secular therapist project and related topics such as the potential harm of inserting religion into a therapist/client relationship, the role of science-based/evidence-based information in therapy, problems secular persons face when seeking mental health professionals, and how religious therapists can strive to not include supernatural elements in therapy.
Dr. Darrel Ray is an organizational psychologist, writer, and speaker who is the founder of Recovering From Religion. His four books include two on organizational team issues (Teaming up: making the transition to a self-directed, team-based organization and The performance culture: maximizing the power of teams), The God Virus: How Religion Infects Our Lives and Culture, and Sex and God: How Religion Distorts Sexuality. Dr. Ray has been a student of religion most of his life and holds a MA degree in religion as well as a BA in Sociology/Anthropology and a doctorate in psychology.
The NEPA Freethought Society is a social, educational, activist, and philosophical coalition of non-believers in the Northeastern Pennsylvania region predicated on support and community.
The NEPA Freethought Society Podcast is available for free on the iTunes store and through an RSS feed. Listen to past episodes of the podcast on iTunes or nepafreethought.org. Support the podcast and the NEPA Freethought Society by clicking the support button at the top of our website and consider sharing the podcast with friends. Connect by following the podcast's Twitter feed and 'liking' the podcast's Facebook page. Questions and comments can be e-mailed to podcast@nepafreethought.org.

Upcoming Podcast with Dr. Darrel Ray
Psychologist Dr. Darrel Ray will be appearing on a special episode of the NEPA Freethought Society Podcast titled “Religion, Psychology, and the Secular Therapist Project with Dr. Darrel Ray” to be released this upcoming Wednesday evening, June 6.
In this episode – largely a conversation between Dr. Ray and the podcast's host Justin Vacula -- Dr. Ray spoke mainly about the secular therapist project and related topics such as the potential harm of inserting religion into a therapist/client relationship, the role of science-based/evidence-based information in therapy, problems secular persons face when seeking mental health professionals, and how religious therapists can strive to not include supernatural elements in therapy.
Dr. Darrel Ray is an organizational psychologist, writer, and speaker who is the founder of Recovering From Religion. His four books include two on organizational team issues (Teaming up: making the transition to a self-directed, team-based organization and The performance culture: maximizing the power of teams), The God Virus: How Religion Infects Our Lives and Culture, and Sex and God: How Religion Distorts Sexuality. Dr. Ray has been a student of religion most of his life and holds a MA degree in religion as well as a BA in Sociology/Anthropology and a doctorate in psychology.
The NEPA Freethought Society is a social, educational, activist, and philosophical coalition of non-believers in the Northeastern Pennsylvania region predicated on support and community.
The NEPA Freethought Society Podcast is available for free on the iTunes store and through an RSS feed. Listen to past episodes of the podcast on iTunes or nepafreethought.org. Support the podcast and the NEPA Freethought Society by clicking the support button at the top of our website and consider sharing the podcast with friends. Connect by following the podcast's Twitter feed and 'liking' the podcast's Facebook page. Questions and comments can be e-mailed to podcast@nepafreethought.org.
Reframing the conversation: Theism, atheism, and more

This post should be the first in a series of a general 'umbrella topic' of "Reframing the Discussion." I hope to talk more about this topic in future posts, podcast episodes, and speeches dealing with the sub-topics of how to be a better communicator, engage in a genuine conversation, and change perspective of how people view disagreement and discussion in order to encourage others to view disagreement and discussion as a positive 'thing.'
In previous months -- and especially following a wonderful discussion I had with philosopher Peter Boghossian (discussion is now available here) -- I have been really interested in the general topic of how a person can effectively communicate with others and what -- if there is an 'answer' -- is the 'best way' to engage a person whom one happens to disagree with whether a discussion is regarding what one considers a 'heated topic' or something as non-controversial (or what one would think would be non-controversial) as how science informs philosophy/how philosophy informs science. I don't think there is just one way to be an effective communicator...but I also don't think that any given way of communicating messages to others is permissible simply because there is not just one way to be an effective communicator; some methods of communicating can rightly be labeled as ineffective.
Every so often, 'turf wars' of sorts are present in the secular community in which people argue that since -- as some assume -- people can't or won't 'change their minds' on some issues, people should have no problems or moral qualms about flat-out insulting theists, attacking individuals with clear malice, and dropping any intentions of education. [Education, though, admittedly ought not always be the overt or latent goal because satire, blasphemy, etc. may be appropriate in many cases...] Theists will likewise be uncharitable to secular individuals; it works both ways (as some commonly say "There are asses in both camps.") I note this as a rationale for authoring this post in which I will use an encounter I had with two people today -- regarding a topic totally unrelated to secularism or theism -- to illustrate some points and later return to issues of atheism and theism later in this post.
Earlier today while I was waiting for a bus to arrive, I heard a woman openly talking about how she is upset because she, on her account, had to quit a job she had (assisting disabled persons in an assisted living facility) because the hourly pay was too low leading to her -- instead of working in a field or a place of employment she wanted to work in -- working in a field she was not interested in.
I responded to her expressing a concern and said, at one point, that it is too bad that persons in helping professions often get paid very little compared to some persons in other professions. Soon after I said this, an elderly man interjected and asked me if I was "for socialism." I said, "Excuse me?" (because I didn't understand why he said that) and asked him to clarify what he meant by that. Instead of responding to my question and having what I consider to be a fruitful conversation, he continued saying, "I made 40 [dollars] an hour before I retired. Did I make too much money?" Once again, I asked him to clarify what he was saying...and the man simply walked away.
As you might have thought (or might have been lead to believe because the lead-in to the previous paragraph), this is not a good way to express disagreement with someone or have a conversation. From the looks of it, it seems that this man wasn't interested in actually learning something about my position, understanding my position, or having a discussion. Instead, the man seemed to have jumped to conclusions, distorted my reasoning (without even, of course, identifying what it was), and just 'pulled a hit-and-run'.
A productive way to start a conversation, before jumping to conclusions about a position one might endorse or what a person believes, is to ask some questions. In this case, questions like a very general and elementary introduction to a conversation would be "Why do you think people in helping professions should earn more money?" and "Do you believe that all workers should earn roughly the same amount of money?" [attempts to gauge what a person believes by directly identifying what one thinks the person believes]
Following these questions, I would be able to identify my position, learn something this man believes, the man could learn something I believe, and so much more. Reflection on an issue like this (and so many others) might be very valuable because humans have blind spots, people may introduce something a person hasn't thought of, and -- quite optimistically -- we can both work toward reaching justified true beliefs (or perhaps something like that).
Returning to the secular/theist angle...if persons enter conversations viewing conversations as learning opportunities or opportunities to educate and have the intention for the 'other' to walk away with a positive impression of someone whom they disagree with [rather than having someone walk away even more 'polarized'], both 'camps' can learn much about being effective communicators in, as I call it, 'reframing the discussion.' Two indications of being a critical thinker -- no matter how smart someone is or no matter how confident a person may be about the beliefs they hold -- are a willingness to consider others' points of view and engage in discussions with people with whom they disagree.
Like it or not (and you should like it), there is much that secular individuals can learn from theists. Theists are not, as some unfortunately seem to caricature all too often, people who can add nothing to conversations about even religion because their theological assumptions are unwarranted (although, as most theists and atheists reading this would likely agree, people like Pat Robertson -- for instance -- seem to show a tremendous disregard for truth and say really stupid things regarding certain topics).
I will admit, when I first considered myself to be an atheist, I was filled with too much unwarranted confidence without experience and deep reflection [at least compared to where I am at now] and my approach was pretty shitty. After much engagement with academic theists, more investigation of 'better arguments' (as opposed to arguments that even academic theists consider to be quite silly and, to borrow a phrase I have heard from some, 'infantile'), and some fruitful discussion with lay theists, I consider myself to be a much more learned individual and a more effective communicator. There is also thankfully still much more to learn!
Reframing the discussion as a positive encounter, of course, shouldn't mean that everyone should jump to unreasonable conclusions of 'all beliefs are of equal weight because there is no such thing as truth and perception is reality,' 'people's beliefs should be immune from criticism' or assent to the commonly uttered phrases of "I have the right to my own opinion" or "You should respect my beliefs" as genuine reasons for people to hold beliefs or otherwise, as previously mentioned, be immune from criticism [click the hyperlinks for my thoughts on these topics]. I have 'belief intolerance,' as funny as it sounds (and how very uncontroversial it should be) in the case that truth exists, people can (and are) be wrong about certain matters, and the simple fact that someone holds a belief is justification for holding a belief. I don't, as some diversity proponents unfortunately do -- as I will plainly put -- commit intellectual suicide by sabotaging one of the chief aims of higher education which is leading students to justified true beliefs with an acknowledgment that truth exists.
What then is the moral of this story? The next time you happen to disagree with someone about a matter -- instead of jumping to conclusions and not having a genuine conversation with the intention of learning something or communicating an educational message -- try to ask some questions, not be a hostile person, and assume you know what people believe before you happen to ask. Although it may seem to be a cliche of sorts, I find truth in the phrase 'you never know what you can learn from others or how you can influence others.'
Of course everything can't be fully explained and I didn't consider everything possible in this post so, as always, feel free to comment on this post and please post with the intent to have a genuine discussion and such. : )
A response to those who claim offense

It's often the case that people are quick to respond to content or people they happen to disagree with with a 'sit down and shut up' mentality in which they believe that certain ideas just shouldn't be discussed. Is this an appropriate attitude to have? In a pluralistic society, I argue, claiming offense and objecting to content -- simply because you happen not to like it -- is unacceptable and immature.
Possible motivations and problems
I believe that many assertions of offense and general objections to my work are hasty responses that are the result of an emotional reaction and a belief that cherished ideas should not be dissected. In a world with so much disagreement and sequestering of ourselves -- despite, ironically enough, the openness of the internet and the increased exposure people can have to different ideas -- perhaps some believe that we should just 'live and let live' and mainly communicate with those who are like-minded. Not enough exposure, perhaps, might be a reason that people have such a difficult time dealing with ideas foreign to them.
Perhaps a hellish mix of misplaced or misunderstood aims of diversity and truth relativism (the notion that truth is relative from individual to individual and/or that there is no such thing as objective truth) has unfortunately led people to believe that everyone can be right about any issue, all beliefs are ultimately one's opinion, and that it's simply just rude to disagree with anyone. Ironically, some efforts to 'draw people together' and find common ground seem to be responsible for causing much harm and intellectual suicide. In the name of what some consider to be tolerance and diversity, some have blissfully placed their brains in blenders and have not achieved a degree of tolerance worth wanting.
Additionally, the ever-returning and often mentioned [in this blog, at least] 'right to opinion' might also be a culprit serving as a barrier to honest discussion...
Cognitive dissonance, the sensation/experience felt when one happens to seemingly hold contradictory beliefs or becomes exposed to information which runs counter to their beliefs, can be difficult to deal with. It seems quite easy to 'throw up the smokescreens' and become defensive when our beliefs challenged and it seems quite difficult to overcome the easy response and, instead of becoming defensive, 'step back' from our ideas and even do so much as to consider another point of view. Perhaps cognitive dissonance is responsible for the attitude of deflection of criticisms?
The general responses of "you shouldn't talk about that" or "you should just leave these ideas alone" that often seem to come from those who object with offense to certain content are often quite short and without explanation or argument (and hopefully I'm not a victim of confirmation bias here). When these comments are made, I typically ask for persons to explain their reasoning and elaborate, but they fail to do so. If persons respond -- after I defend myself, expand on my ideas, and further clarify my reasoning pertaining to the issue at hand -- original objectors continue to, instead of responding to the content, object to a discussion about certain matters even taking place (while the discussion is taking place).
This 'methodology' is not a sign -- it seems -- of an honest discussion in which the objecting party is looking for a conversation; this seems to be characteristic of a hit-and-run tactic paired with an insufficient concern for truth and intellectual laziness. One would expect that people who were willing enough to object to my work would be willing to have an honest discussion if they were willing enough to post and were genuinely offended [perhaps seeking to squelch the content], but this unfortunately isn't the case. Perhaps I am giving people too much credit.
Some philosophy might save us...
In his book "The View From Nowhere," philosopher Thomas Nagel explains how difficult it can be to critically self-reflect and how impossible it might be to 'separate ourselves' from our beliefs. A state of total objectivity -- it appears -- is something we just can't reach as human beings, but we can try our best to work toward objectivity - and with good reason. Self-reflection and a willingness to modify our beliefs -- provided good reason, argument, and evidence are presented that justifies a cognitive shift -- is essential to being an intellectually-minded individual and perhaps even a productive mature functioning member of society.
What good would life be if we never amended our beliefs or realized our errs? We all make mistakes or might happen to hold incorrect ideas for whatever reasons (often no fault of our own) and that's nothing to be ashamed of. What should be considered shameful, though, is an unwillingness to amend our beliefs and a closed-minded attitude. Realizing that our beliefs were inaccurate and considering a new perspective shouldn't be something that we avoid, but rather should be something we embrace. I call this progress, openness, and a concern for truth.
In a 'marketplace of ideas' and a pluralistic society that is not filled with 'yes men' or 'yes woman,' some people will feel offended or provoked by certain content because people regard their beliefs as important self-identifying characteristics and view 'threats' to their beliefs as character attacks. Someone is bound to claim offense when issues such as worldviews and religions are being scrutinized. Before claiming offense, though, or acting in an immature fashion -- especially when content with quite a mild tone is being considered -- people ought to realize that disagreement is inevitable. Just about anyone can claim to be offended by just about anything, so the questions that should be considered are "Is it reasonable for me to claim offense?" and "What should the response be to content I consider offensive?" before people jump to unreasonable conclusions and make unreasonable demands for others to cease expressing their ideas.
One person's 'offensive content' is the next person's 'telling it like it is' that is, as some may see it, quite uncontroversial. With a sea of differing value judgments and barometers as to what is appropriate and inappropriate, it seems futile to protest to anything and everything out there. While there may be no objective standard for what can be considered offensive (mainly, perhaps, because this is an issue of personal taste and there is no quick-and-dirty way to distinguish 'offensive' from 'not offensive'), we shouldn't despair. The proper reaction to what one considers to be offensive, then, considering mentioned issues, is a mature attitude in which one realizes that people will happen to disagree - and disagreement shouldn't force or otherwise demand people to cease from publishing 'any old content.'
Offense isn't the goal, but progress should be
It's difficult for me to identify a single or primary motivation -- if one even exists -- pertaining to why I do what I do, but I can say that I don't write with an intention to offend people, provoke, or make people upset. Writing -- what seems to be my main focus as far as my involvement in the secular community is concerned -- can serve many different purposes such as highlighting bigotry, inspiring people to work toward change, and helping people to understand where certain people are 'coming from' outside of the quick soundbytes and short tweets (although these can be helpful). I like to author longer posts, although they may not be read by as many people if the posts happened to be shorter, in order to allow people to understand my reasoning and further the conversation.
Self-reflection and exposure to new ideas can be a learning experience, a catalyst toward progress, an 'opening door' to new opportunities, a chance to defend one's beliefs and respond to thoughtful objections, and so much more. Instead of claiming offense and avoiding discussion with people, engaging oneself can be quite fulfilling and productive even thought it may seem uncomfortable. If all else fails and engaging with new ideas is too much to handle -- or persons simply just don't want to engage with ideas -- persons can simply 'take the high road' instead of objecting to ideas being voiced with a substantive response.
It seems to be more important that people -- if we were forced with one option over another -- live together than agree on everything. Disagreement is inevitable, so we ought to be able to respond to people and ideas we might happen to disagree with in an intellectually mature and honest manner. Living together, while it may seem very difficult, seems to be much more possible than a successful effort for humans to agree on all issues. Having honest discussions and interacting with people whom we might happen to disagree with seems to allow for our own intellectual progress and understanding of other people. Instead of glibly claiming offense and asserting that others should 'sit down and shut up,' let's assume a mature attitude and be realistic.
As always, comments are welcome. Sharing this post on Twitter, Facebook, Google Plus, and wherever else (click below to share!) is also appreciated.
If you're interested in my thoughts (and the thoughts of Rodney Collins) on another related and often overlapping matter, 'respecting beliefs,' please listen to Episode 9 of the NEPA Freethought Society Podcast titled, as you might have guessed, "Respecting Beliefs" in audio and/or video formats.
PowerPoint: "Perception is Reality: A skeptical viewpoint"

You might have heard or perhaps endorsed (!) some ideas regarding the nature of truth. Perhaps you believe that all truth is relative, individuals create their own realities, or what people believe is 'true for them.' The phrase 'perception is reality' is often mentioned by many, but there's often -- as far as I've experienced in casual conversations with the 'philosophically unwashed' or perhaps people who aren't thinking very critically -- a large misunderstanding surrounding this phrase that seems to lead people to accept conclusions about the nature of truth this is, unfortunately, profoundly unreasonable.
I argue for a reasonable view of 'perception is reality' and argue against the most unreasonable understandings of 'perception is reality in this presentation. I don't use 'heavy terminology' or 'dig too deep' into some philosophical concerns and unfortunately only have ten minutes to deliver this presentation, but this should be just fine for a lay audience (especially a class in which people likely have little understanding of epistemology, logic, and philosophy in general). This could easily be a lengthy presentation and be more specialized for an audience with more understanding of philosophy. (I didn't even touch ideas of ethics of belief, go deep into induction and the laws of logic, threats to the law of the excluded middle and bivalance, or discuss -- in length -- the reasons why people happen to endorse truth relativism...)
For a longer take on this issue, please read my Philosophy Capstone paper titled "A Defense of Reason." Enjoy the PowerPoint and please feel free to comment.
Download/view the PowerPoint here.
...and for those who think that this is an 'atheistic' viewpoint for whatever reason, here's a discussion with Christian philosopher William Lane Craig raising criticisms against 'perception is reality' in the sense that all truth is subjective and individuals create their own realities or otherwise constitute reality simply because they hold beliefs. [I obviously disagree with William Lane Craig on the idea of a properly basic belief and some other things in this podcast, but that's a story for another day...]
Labels:
critical thinking,
philosophy,
psychology
Disagreement, not Disrespect: Attacking Beliefs, not Persons

When an argument is being discussed in a respectful manner, one party generally advocates a particular position and a person who does not hold the same belief offers counter-arguments and reasons why the claim being made is faulty. Consider, for instance, a proposition that an all-powerful, all-loving, and all-knowing god exists. A person may state that this belief is problematic because of [the frequency of] natural disasters in the universe, no good reason such a being would sit by idly and allow gross moral evil to occur, etc [View my problem of evil posts here]. At this point, the discussion can go many ways. In a civil and reasonable discussion, the person who claims that an omni-god exists would answer the counter-arguments, show why the counter-arguments fail, and he/she may raise some new points. The discussion will go back and forth until the parties end the discussion for whatever reason.
The above example was a general sketch of a civil discussion, but instead of this, the original claimant (or really any party) can see disagreement as some sort of attack or might believe that the person who disagrees thinks that the claimant is stupid. There is no good reason to interpret the situation in this manner unless someone is clearly being a jerk or levying personal attacks. Disagreement in a respectful manner should not be construed as a personal attack.
Disagreement should not be thought of as a complete character evaluation of a person. For example, I might posit idea x and you might disagree with idea x. My reasons for believing idea x may be recognized as faulty by you, but this should [generally, but with some reservations] not lead anyone to the conclusion that my stance on one issue shows that I am, 'across the board,' an idiot. It is important to realize that many people hold beliefs for various reasons including rationalization of certain ideas, lack of exposure to counter-arguments, lack of skepticism, and fallaciously applying different standards of skepticism to different ideas (special pleading).
Many intelligent people can hold some unsubstantiated beliefs and the reasons for holding these beliefs can be really bad ones. For example, one of the smartest living scientists, Francis Collins, interpreted a triune waterfall as a sign from God and, seemingly because of seeing this waterfall, he believes that the Christian god exists. I can formulate a list of various reasons why the reasons for this belief are deeply flawed, disagree with Collins, and have a discussion with him. Although we disagree, this does not mean that I think he is a complete idiot and I am not attacking him in any manner.
Some people might hold beliefs simply because they have not simply are not skeptical or do not have 'critical thinking toolkits.' This was the case, I believe, with me in my childhood to my later teen years. I was not a skeptic and held many beliefs because of what I now think to be grave errors in thinking that I was unaware of. I believed in the Christian god, I think, because it was the 'default good,' I was taught to believe that faith was a permissible and worthy quality, and various authority figures held this belief. Because of this belief, I committed various lapses in thinking such as believing that God healed a sunburn I had and diminished the pain after I prayed (post hoc ergo propter hoc/false cause fallacy), a communion wafer tasted really bad because I ate it before I should have eaten it...and the later ones tasted better (placebo effect, false cause), and God sent a sign that my dead friend was in Heaven after I saw someone who spoke with me the next day wearing a shirt with an obscure band on it that I listened to.
I would not call my earlier self stupid or find him blameworthy because he simply did not know better. Now, with an understanding of logical fallacies and critical thinking skills, I recognize these errors. Another problem with my earlier self is that I never heard or considered serious objections to my belief in God until I was about 16. Soon after hearing objections, I determined that holding justified true beliefs was paramount and I embarked my quest to atheism and skepticism. I understand that many people, while they may be old or young, were and are just like I was; they were largely ignorant of contrary ideas to their positions and believed all sorts of fallacious claims. [Read more about my 'backstory' here.] Mainly because of this, and many other factors outlined in this post, I do not think people are stupid because they hold certain ideas that I disagree with.
Some people may compartmentalize belief; they apply rigorous standards/skepticism to almost every area of their lives, but they don't apply rigorous standards/skepticism to some beliefs they hold. For example, a person can understand that homeopathic 'remedies' are merely diluted substances that have no effect whatsoever and psychics have no real abilities to see the future, but they go to a chiropractor who alleges that he realigns spines with God's ultimate intentions and that asthma and long-term medications lead to a sicker body, amongst many other claims. A person like this, instead, should apply skepticism globally, but he/she does not. He/she may rationalize such a belief and utter statements like "My life was horrible until I went to a chiropractor and I was much better after!" (false cause fallacy, possible placebo effect) without realizing the logical fallacies.
Voiced disagreement rebutting the claims of the chiropracty endorser should not be construed as a personal attack, but rather a situation that both parties (and perhaps more in an 'audience' of sorts) can profit from. A good intentioned person who critiques an argument, instead of attacking the person, is actually doing the person a favor by disagreeing and having a discussion because involved parties are able to test their own beliefs by defending them in an open fashion. Justified true beliefs matter. Those who are able to critique their own beliefs and those of others engage in healthy 'cognitive exercise' and can walk away from a civil and productive discussion fulfilled. Instead of disagreement being thought of as disrespect, it should be thought of, if done in a respectful manner, respect. By taking the time to voice disagreement, I am helping others evaluate their ideas and care enough to voice my criticisms. While it is not always the case that discussions are motivated by good discussion, civil discussions can end as productive and fulfilling.
Some people also believe that disagreement without someone is being disrespectful because people are failing to 'respect beliefs.' In my two years of blogging, public discussion, and commenting in various mediums, I have yet to hear one person give a solid definition (despite my constant asking) of what I believe to be an utterly incoherent concept that is fundamentally mistaken. This phrase is further confusing because the motivations for this phrase are hard or impossible to discern. Does the person really think that no beliefs a person holds should ever be criticized? Does the person think that some topics should be utterly left alone while others are 'fair game'?
I usually, after asking what 'respecting beliefs' means, note that beliefs have no cognition and can't possibly be disrespected, so this phrase makes no sense. I also note that disagreement does not entail that a person is being disrespected (as I've done several times in this post). I firmly believe that all topics should be open to be critiqued and that discussion about important and 'personal' matters should especially discussed. As a society, we do ourselves a great disservice when we fail to discuss important topics.
There is a huge difference between 'attacking ideas' (I'm using this very figuratively here) and attacking persons. When I am attacking an idea, I am noting the weaknesses of the idea, pointing out possible logical fallacies, and noting counter-objections. There is, at no time, and disrespect toward a person...and the person really is only involved as the other party presenting arguments because the idea is what is being discussed. If I were to attack a person, I'd hurl insults, possibly physically harm a person, or talk about how stupid the person is being/is.
Perhaps our language needs to be more careful in order to better 'separate beliefs from persons' and not give people the impression that they are being attacked when there is disagreement (and I need to work at this myself). More use of language should address the argument and not the person, perhaps by saying "I disagree with this argument because" instead of "I disagree with you because." Perhaps the phrase "This argument commits the *insert logical fallacy here*" instead of "You commit the *insert logical fallacy here."
This endeavor, though, is a tremendously difficult one for people who don't already understand that disagreement is not disrespect. Since people hold beliefs, people think of their beliefs as being a part of their character, a result of careful thought processes, and generally place them on a high throne. Very important and cherished beliefs, when challenged, can lead a person to utter rage and a vitriolic manner. Instead of thinking of disagreement as criticism of an argument, some people frame disagreement as a character attack by thinking: "Who are you to disagree with me?" , "You are saying that I am wrong?" , and "Since you disagree with me, you must think that I am stupid."
We can, at the end of the day, walk away from critical discussions as friends. We need not all agree about every given matter in order to be friendly and respect other persons. While living together is more important than agreeing, this should not, for one moment, be a reason to never critique a belief. Persons should welcome discussion and see discussion as an opportunity to put their beliefs to the test instead of viewing discussion as 'argument' and an attack on one's character.
Confirmation Bias and Sampling Errors

This line of reasoning commits mainly two errors including confirmation bias and a sampling error. Confirmation bias is the tendency to notice and favor information that accords with their pre-established beliefs and ignore contrary evidence. Michael Shermer also calls this "noticing the 'hits' and missing the 'misses' when we remember certain information." The commenter who worked in grocery stores and liquor stores may have seen some welfare recipients who seem to be addicted to drugs, but she has certainly seen many people who were addicted to drugs who were not welfare recipients and many welfare recipients who were not addicted to drugs. The commenter, though, does not mention this and instead uses a very small sample to justify her conclusion.
Another error the commenter makes is applying a conclusion formed about a very small group of people to a larger whole. If it really is the case that welfare recipients are more likely to use drugs than those who are not welfare recipients in this area, this does not entail that this is the case for the entire population of welfare recipients.
It is very important to consider all data instead of a select group that you remember that accords with your pre-established belief. Confirmation bias also occurs with psychics. Through cold reading, the process of making general statements about a 'client' in which the person receives feedback to make more specific statements, people will make 'accurate statements' about the client and the clients remember these accurate statements while forgetting about the inaccurate statements. Psychics will say many statements and eventually something will stick, but clients will often selectively remember the sticking statements.
Instead of trying to look for information that supports our already held beliefs, we should draw conclusions from a larger group of data, consider opposing arguments, and not draw conclusions about an entire group of people based on a small set of data.
For more on drug testing for welfare recipients, visit the following two links...but this discussion is beyond the scope of this post:
Rationally Speaking Blog
Rationally Speaking Blog
Labels:
fallacies,
psychology
Psychology Denialism and 'Big Government'


An interesting discussion with a neighbor of mine ensued today when he and I started talking about local politics. We eventually started talking about republican candidates for president and I told him that I would love to see Sarah Palin run because the race would be quite entertaining and silly. He responded and said that she has some great ideas, but the media is out to make her look stupid. I asked him to clarify what these great ideas were and responded saying that while people in the media may make people believe that she is stupid, Palin's speeches, appearances, and ideas make her look very silly and make her a candidate to be laughed at. My neighbor mentioned that her ideas consisted of 'people fending for themselves,' 'being a man,' and not wanting big government to carry people. He explained that people can fend for themselves no matter what.
I objected to all of these points and I asked him to clarify his terms. He defined 'being a man' roughly as 'toughening up' and making things work for yourself. Aside from the patriarchal undertones which I objected to/his using of this term, I understood his point and mentioned that people are often victims of circumstances and cannot always fend for themselves without help from the government or even others. I mentioned various cases such as single mothers who have little opportunities for jobs [and only high school education or ever less]. I mentioned persons with mental illnesses, physical disabilities, and other various limitations. I mentioned disaster victims. I mentioned children in dysfunctional families who simply can't provide for themselves...
My neighbor objected to the idea of mental disorders and other limitations because he believes that people can fend for themselves no matter what. Defending this, he appealed to one person with mental disabilities who is local to me who works a job and can function. Even though he has disabilities, he said, he can still 'fend for himself' and doesn't need government assistance. I objected saying that he's committing a sampling error: you can't just look at one person with one or some disabilities and then say that every person who is disadvantaged can 'fend for themselves.' Many, while they may be diagnosed with a mental disorder, have different levels of diagnoses: some may be fully-functioning, low-functioning, or quite disabled. Some people simply can't hold jobs and don't have money to purchase their medications, and their mental disabilities can limit their daily activities to quite a debilitating level. Just because one person or some people with mental disabilities can 'fend for themselves' does not mean that all can.
At this point, my neighbor started to object to diagnoses by levying the 'classic' 'scientists are always wrong' objection. I wasn't going to let this one pass and started to talk about what science is, what scientists want to do, and about how science is self-correcting. Of course scientists can be wrong, but what they do is offer what we can know today given the evidence. Scientists, if and when wrong, should not discount the whole of science, but rather should be welcomes because we can substitute wrong information with more accurate information.
While some people may be misdiagnosed/some psychologists may overdiagnose, this doesn't mean that the whole of psychology should be thrown out. Diagnoses are made through a combination of testing, definitions derived from diagnostic manuals, etc. It is one of the reasons that top psychology schools ensure that students receive technical research experience throughout the program. Persons with mental disorders may be able to function better than others or not noticeably (at least to the general public) be impaired in some areas of life. To deny psychology because scientists were wrong about some things or because some persons can deal with their impairments better than others is extremely fallacious.
Instead of responding to these arguments (or perhaps simply admitting defeat), my neighbor tried a new argument that was quite odd. He mentioned that some famous brilliant scientists were considered to be 'crazy' by their neighbors and the public and that if we prescribed medications to these people, we wouldn't have had so many scientific advances today. Notice, first, the inherent special pleading here: while this person said that scientists are always wrong, he then cherry-picks and admits that some scientists were indeed right and then fails to understand how scientific advancements take place. It matters not what a scientist's disposition is, but rather whether their ideas are correct. Many scientists in the past and even today may be considered 'crazy,' like my neighbor mentioned, but this matters not if their ideas are correct. It's also not the case that we would not have advanced scientifically if we prescribed medicine to past scientists or if we believed that had mental disorders.
Taking his argument a step further in a new awkward direction, my neighbor mentioned that 'big government' did not hold these scientists back and now, because government is so big and because we have an advanced understanding of human psychology, we're 'suppressing' scientists. This is a very weird claim because federal funding, although it is not as much as it should be, is assisting scientists...and what does advanced psychological understanding have to do with our advancement of science? All sorts of scientists may struggle with mental disorders, but they can still 'do their science' and contribute. Advanced psychological understanding isn't a 'tool' of 'big government' that is used to stop scientific progress.
Finished with this discussion, I returned to other situations in which people are victims of circumstance, specifically disaster victims. He said that people who are effected by natural disasters simply shouldn't live where they live and should have insurance...
He said that he has insurance on his house [in an area of Pennsylvania where natural disasters very rarely, if ever, happen] and can 'fend for himself' without 'big government' stepping in. People who are in disaster-prone areas often have little to no options and a mass exodus of people 'moving out' simply just can't happen. Where are these people going to go? Who will provide these people with money?
I explained to my neighbor that we don't have a utopia where everyone has a great family, good social support, and lots of money to provide for themselves. It's rather hard in this economy, especially, for good jobs to just suddenly spring up and recruit all unemployed and disadvantaged persons. Persons don't have some sort of unrestricted free will like my neighbor espouses. Save the more difficult and engaging idea of whether or not we free will from a philosophical perspective, people are largely limited by their genetics, environment, and their opportunities. Everyone is not wealthy enough to 'fend for themselves' and government is often needed to provide for the general public. While some people may 'cheat the system' and be irresponsible, many are really well-intentioned persons who are simply disadvantaged. While some programs can be cut and while there is wasteful spending and bureaucracy, there's no reason to think of government as some evil force that is suppressing people and giving out free rides to undeserving people who can 'man up' and 'fend for themselves.' This largely republican mindset* simply doesn't pan out when faced with criticisms that I levied against my neighbor.
As always, feel free to offer some ideas by commenting on my blog post. This is largely about a discussion I had with my neighbor and can't possibly offer objections to all who don't agree with my ideas/think that government should be largely eliminated from our lives in terms of social programs, disaster relief, etc.
*Some libertarians (and other republicans), while not identifying as republican, may, of course, not be like my neighbor and have less extreme ideas, but many often cast the ideas of 'big government' and unrestrained human freedom with the 'everyone can and should fend for themsleves' mentality. This, as I noted, may be true for some, but certainly is not for all persons. Many are victims of circumstances and don't have the same opportunities as others. We can't all possibly pick ourselves up by our bootstraps, live the 'American Dream,' and live without aid from the government.
Labels:
free will,
logical fallacies,
philosophy,
psychology
Making Sense of Ethics in a Modern Scientific Worldview: Essay
I just finished a "prototype" of my final paper for my Modern/Contemporary Philosophy class answering the question that has plagued modern philosophy in the West, "How, given the advent and advance of 'the modern scientific worldview,' can we capture 'the fact of value:' the fact that we all have and act from ideas about how to live?". I had to consider three philosophers from a list and discuss their ideas regarding moral philosophy, evaluate their ideas, and select which philosopher I most agree with and then offer a conclusion regarding how to make sense of values.
I could have easily written a long treatise on this (expanding on ideas and further considering other philosophers), but kept discussion to five full pages. Enjoy.
Formation and Reinforcement of Religious Belief + My Backstory

Many of our beliefs are products of our peers, parents, culture, and education. Generally, we'd like to think that many of our important beliefs are justified with good support and evidence, but that's probably not the case. Advertising is muddled with "sales" and statistics often mislead us. Experienced marketers with a solid background in advertising know exactly what they are doing. News commentators tell us about how terrible the political party they don't belong to us. Sports networks tout about how great certain teams are and how certain teams have the greatest fans in the world...but so does every other team. We often might not think twice (or even once) until someone, if ever, points out errors in our thinking. Figures who have some sort of authority or perceived authority make claims that we often accept just because.
Imagine if I were to teach you a card game, you'd probably accept what I have to say regarding the rules of the game and probably have all reasons to do so. You don't know how to play the game and you think I do...but I could have just presented you incorrect information and you would not have known it. If you find inconsistencies in my presentation of the information or it appears that I'm making up rules as I go along, you might question, but you'll accept everything else.
Imagine that you hear a speech regarding research on autism from a professor at a university. When you return home are you going to check the information presented and see if it is widely accepted by scientists? Are you going to look for the studies that were referenced? If you know much about the topic and care about the topic, you might, but if you don't really know much and don't care, you probably won't. If a conversation with friends on autism happens in the future, you'll probably present this information and say "an expert told me this" ... and you might even communicate incorrect information do to a faulty memory, confusion of ideas, and your own possible related ideas that really have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Children playing the "telephone game" can demonstrate this quite easily. (Tell someone a story and over time the original story can change quite easily and quite drastically.)
Watch this Short Change Scam...the shopkeeper here has no idea that she got scammed and probably would not realize she was scammed until the end of her shift when she counts her drawer.
It's very easy to be confused when you are multitasking and dealing with numbers.
We often don't take the time (and really can't) to verify every claim we hear. It's impossible to demand tremendous evidence for all claims we hear, so we simply accept information as being credible. Combine claims with environmental distractions, you thinking about what is going to happen later in the day, cognitive errors...
Let's make it more difficult and consider children. Children listen to their parents because they believe that their parents are very smart, right about most things, and for evolutionary reasons. Children look up to their parents and other role-models...they listen to teachers, are told that people in uniforms (especially policemen) are trustworthy, and generally accept most of what they hear unless it contradicts earlier learned information. Children readily believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and the boogeyman. Sure, over time these beliefs fade because children realize that these are fairy tales and other children or adults "spoil" them. Many other beliefs that adults continue to believe in and reinforce such as the ideas that minority groups are inferior, homosexuals are "wrong and disordered," homeless people are homeless because they are failures at life, Mother Theresa is a paragon for charity and goodness, priests and clergy are exemplary moral individuals who know more about morality and ethics than laypeople, etc.
Children will believe in most beliefs that adults constantly reinforce and present as fact. When the general population also reinforces these ideas and presents ideas as fact, the reinforcement is strengthened. As you might have guessed, a particularly reinforced and shielded belief in America is Christianity. Churches in small town Pennsylvania are often "on every street corner next to bars" as the common joke and reality suggests. There's no shortage of churches and adults professing their faith. There's no shortage of schoolchildren believing in the Christian god. There is no shortage of children attending religious classes such as CCD, summer camps, etc. At a very early age, children are told that Jesus died for their sins, that Hell is real (and Christians think that teaching Hell is justified), and that when they die they'll see all of their family in Heaven. Yup, children around the age of five are learning about death, are guilt-ridden, and placed in a state of fear for what they do because a loving god who is watching them can send them to burn for eternity...but that's a post for another day.
I can recall learning about the idea of reconciliation and sin at a very early age and having to go to confession. I was told that I had to pray away my wrongdoings, talk with a priest about my sins, and felt really bad about not attending church, not listening to my parents, etc. I worried about my great grandmother after she died and I went to her funeral and cried because there was a chance she wasn't going to Heaven. I honestly thought that I had to pray to her because she was in purgatory. When I sinned I felt really bad...especially after getting out of confession.
I had no choice in this matter. My parents never said anything like "Well, here is what we believe and here is the reason for believing it. What do you think?" or "You can choose whether you believe in it or not." Even today my mother says, "You can't not believe in God, you're raised Roman Catholic." When I ask why she believes (which often doesn't happen because she gets very angry), I get appeals to tradition, emotive arguments, arguments from ignorance/complexity, and stupid arguments like Pascal's Wager or "you have to believe in something." With her, there is no rational discussion about God because she is convinced for "personal reasons."
"Arguments" from ignorant believers (not all of them are, of course because many wouldn't say these really stupid things) consist of similar patterns and these people never even met each other!
- I have a right to my own beliefs!
- Don't tell me what to believe!
- It's better to believe in something than nothing!
- Who are you to question God!
- How could the universe have arisen from nothing without God?
- If you believe in God and you're wrong you've lost nothing, but if you don't believe in God and you're wrong, it's all suffering.
- The eye/universe/this giraffe is too complex to exist without God!
- I have faith! I don't need evidence, reason, and argument!
- I believe because it's right for me!
- Everything happens for a [hidden/mystical] reason! OMG!!1one (my most hated assertion)
As mentioned in other posts, no one really challenged my ideas about religion until around my second year in college. I went on in my life as a "true believer" and used programmed responses (where did I get them from anyway, church and CCD, of course.) like "that's why it's faith." I enjoyed going to church, singing the music, seeing all of the art, narrarating and reading the readings, etc. Church is a place where you really do feel good and feel part of a team (despite all the mixed messages about God's love...but yet he may torture you and others for all eternity). Christianity tells you about how bad you are...and offers you ways to deal with the bad (although the bad often is an idea of bad exclusive to Christianity). Sure, not all forms of Christianity or individual Christians accept everything the church or the Bible says, but the general idea of sin is widely accepted - we're inherently "fallen" and the way to deal with it is to accept Jesus, repent, and feel sorry for our wrongdoings after "getting right with God." The real problem here is that humans do make mistakes and we don't always do the right thing, so we get a constant loop looking with this:
Christianity tells us that certain actions and thoughts are wrong
We do something wrong
We feel guilty
We're told that doing "x" will make it better
We repent and confess our sins
We do something wrong
We feel more guilty
We repent.....
Couple this with the existence of Hell, the idea that God is always watching us, and the idea that only the righteous and true believers go to Heaven and you're quite easily "hooked." Again, not all believers think of sin and exemplify this loop, but many do. Some children are told that it's wrong to question about God ("The blasphemy of the Spirit today, which is the same as the unpardonable sin, is the state of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief.") and that people who don't believe in him are immoral devil-worshipers who worship science. What's even worse is that the non-believers are not visible and vocal so the myths can perpetuate. Only if more atheists were out and active... Children might say "Hey, daddy, Uncle Jim told me he doesn't believe in any gods and talked to me about it. I asked him some questions and you know, non-believers aren't bad like Pastor Tim said they were." The myths of atheists being bad people even continues with adults...I recently heard this from someone in a classroom. Unfortunately, I didn't have the time to respond, "I know you're an atheist and everything, BUT you're pretty nice and respectful." Why the but......???!?
Beliefs about the nature of the universe and the supernatural should not be justified because of emotion or personal experiences. They should be justified because of good reason, argument, and evidence...not fear, comfort, and appeals to tradition.
It is often the case with Christianity that children are labeled as religious because they can properly make a choice about the ideas and fully read their religious texts. Imagine calling children republicans or democrats...but we often call children religious. What is this madness? Can you ever possibly think of a child ever saying, "You know what? I think that the government should stay out of our lives as much as possible, everyone should own whatever guns they want, and the rich should not be taxed at a high rate." Never... but we will hear children saying they love Jesus and Jesus loves them. There's clearly something wrong with this picture.
It's odd that religious belief often doesn't start with "Here's the idea and here is the reason that it is true" but rather infantile belief followed by later "justifications" and excuses. We're doing things in the reverse order here. Read the Bible, think about the ideas, and then make a decision...we shouldn't make a decision before the reasons for the decision. Children could easily be presented with the ideas of Scientology, Jainism, Islam, Christianity, or Pastafarianism and wholly believe it. As Richard Dawkins says and I'll slightly modify, religious belief is often an accident of birth: you're born into a family with religious parents and you believe what they do because you're told that it's true. Later in life you might investigate, but chances are that you won't or will just accept your version of the truth modifying what others believe and maybe some of your beliefs. Fundamentalists might turn into moderates and moderates might just be content with "what I believe is what I believe and I believe it." Fundamentalists might turn to non-belief and non-believers might turn out to be fundamentalists...although I do doubt many who say that they used to be atheists but then present "arguments" like Pascal's Wager :)
Even amongst theists, I hardly, if ever, get "real reasons" for belief. I generally get nonsense as bulleted above and a good conversation hardly ever happens. It shouldn't be hard to say something like, "This is what I believe and why I believe it" without falling victim to logical fallacies. Even if I don't agree with your worldview or ideas, you should be able to present arguments and reasons. Laziness, ignorance, and simply not thinking about issues deeply can be to blame...this can apply to all issues and all people. Can many theists often list the arguments from atheists and give responses that are coherent? I think not. I'm not trying to make theists look unintelligent or stupid, but many people do give the "group" a bad name quite often (and I'm sure atheists can do the same because atheism doesn't always entail awesome clarity of thought).
So, are we now to be disillusioned and give up all our beliefs, never trust people, and not accept new information? No, the proper course is to really think about what matters, go out and investigate, ask proper questions, make up your own mind, and have good reasons for your important beliefs. When I first wanted to think about the possibility of Christian claims being false and I was still a theist, I thought "It's pretty important whether or not God exists. I should really seek some answers" and now I'm here from a "true believer" who was told that cursing was a "strike" for me against God to a person who freely says fuck on any given opportunity. What a change... I've learned so, so much from the past year or so and still have much more to learn and explore.
Whatever your decisions are, understand that important ideas should be based on good reason that you can dictate, understand, and present to detractors and, as always, you might be entitled to your own beliefs, but you aren't entitled to your own facts.
Labels:
belief,
personal experience,
psychology
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)